Hi Lukas, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us! How have you been?
I’m alive. So, not bad. Can’t complain.
Let’s start off with a bit about yourself. Could you please share with our audience what is it that you do and a bit about your career journey up to this point?
I’m a director of conversion optimization. I make sure conversion optimization:
- is profitably scaled throughout the company group;
- helps build data-driven organizational culture.
How did I get there?
- Wrote books
- Freelanced as a copywriter
- Worked as a conversion copywriter
- Identified the need for more thorough a/b testing
- Worked as a conversion rate optimization specialist
- Identified the need for a full-time CRO developer
- Identified the need for more CRO specialists & decentralized CRO; started building a team of CRO specialists.
On your LinkedIn profile, you talk about how website copy is costing companies 30% of their website revenue. Could tell us why you think this number is so high and what companies should do about it?
Most web copy is written by copywriters who have never a/b tested their copy. And have never a/b tested their clients’ copy.
How do they know if their copy is the most optimal solution?
Would you trust a scientist that invents vaccines but doesn’t run experiments to test their effectiveness?
SURE. This is fine for low-budget projects. Or websites that will be used by a couple of thousands of users per week.
Yet, the larger the scale, the more money mediocre copy steals from you. Furthermore, it’s difficult to scale a business with a foot on the brake pedal.
(My claims are not random. Over and over again I find more effective copy that generates hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional revenue.)
What to do about it?
- Hire a CRO agency / CRO Specialist / Conversion Copywriter for an hour-long consultation
- Ask them to briefly evaluate your copy
- If their evaluation makes sense, hire them to do extensive research and a/b test your web copy.
You often post thought experiments around how pages could have more impactful copy, what’s your advice to those looking to write solid converting copy?
- Relying on copywriting tactics is guesswork. Learn fundamentals of human behavior and copywriting. They go hand in hand. You can’t be great at copywriting if you don’t know what drives our actions.
2. Write every day:
- Keep a diary.
- Post on social media.
- Send well-thought-out messages to friends or colleagues.
- Come up with thought experiments.
3. Write in frameworks: frameworks save time because they can be applied over and over again. Sometimes I use big-picture frameworks like BUSINESS CONTEXT -> RESEARCH -> DRAFT -> DRAFT 2 -> FEEDBACK + REVISION -> FINAL PIECE -> A/B TEST -> …
Sometimes I think in narrow processes: RESEARCH: pain points -> benefits -> goals -> concerns -> direct competitors -> indirect competitors -> drawbacks of alternatives -> …
I judge specialists by their frameworks.
Keep testing/challenging your writing style & frameworks.
A/B test as much of your writing as you can: find an environment wherein you can see your copy in action. Outcomes will amaze you.
Changing gears. You’re a prolific writer! Could tell us about your books and what inspired you to write them?
I used to hate shallow romance novels. So I decided to write literature that is “real” – packed with swear words, semi-shitty lives, nihilism, delusion, hope, love, and death.
We all have our favorites – of all the books you’ve written, which are you most proud of and why?
My 4th one: “Post World War 3”. It’s quick. It’s vivid. I think when I was writing it I finally knew how to produce a decent book. (FYI, all my books are in my native language (which is Lithuanian)). “Post World War 3” is about a depressed society whose currency is happiness drugs.
Finally, it’s time for the Lightning Round! Are you a Bayesian or a Frequentist?
Oxford comma. Yes or no?
Yes and no.
If you couldn’t work in Experimentation, what would you do?
Describe Lukas in 5 words or less.
Why? How? Haha. No. Okay.
Thanks so much for chatting with me today!
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