Getting start-ups to adopt a culture of experimentation with Simon Girardin Experiment Nation

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Every time that we kick off a project with CRO, we try to invite all of the stakeholders, including your Executives and directors. Anyone who’s interested can just sit in and listen. Usually, within a couple of calls, they gain a deep understanding of our processes, how everything is connected, and the level of sophistication in our thought process.
CRO isn’t just a marketing tool; it involves innovation, validating ideas, and challenging assumptions. We involve stakeholders at various levels, even skeptics, by inviting them to join calls, ask questions, and gain insights into the entire process. This approach helps dispel skepticism and shows that CRO is more than just a tactical marketing tool.
To ensure efficient testing, we start by running stakeholder interviews to understand the website’s technical aspects, alignment on metrics, and potential roadblocks. By solving issues early, we build trust and ensure smoother testing.
The difference between tactical CRO and strategic CRO is significant. Tactical CRO often focuses on short-term, isolated projects like landing pages, while strategic CRO aims to create a long-term impact and build case studies. Strategic CRO requires ongoing work and a deeper understanding of the client’s business.
When choosing a CRO agency or evaluating one, consider three key components: 1. What goes into test plan creation and whether there’s a strategy behind it. 2. How the agency handles test results and the next steps, ensuring they tie into the strategic process. 3. How communication and workflow are structured to involve all required people and create team enablement.

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Simon Girardin 0:00

Every time that we kick off a project with the IRA, we try to invite all of the stakeholders. And we’re like all of your executives or your directors, and anyone who’s just interested in just want to sit on the call, like your fly on the wall. And they don’t necessarily need to be involved, but they can just listen and watch. And usually within, you know, two or three hours, just a couple of hours, they get so much understanding and sense of how we do things. There’s a lot of, you know, explaining the process and kind of showing every single bits and parts while all the tie together and everything is connected. And by doing that, with them, it just really shows the level of sophistication that the thought process, how everybody this is coalgaadi Vala. Speaking from experimentations podcast, we’re here during talking to the to the was interesting CRO experts in the world to give you the latest insight and knowledge of project build up. And today with us, I’m proud to announce we have d-mo General day, an amazing director and CRO expert. If you’ve been following him on LinkedIn, you know, he’s talking every day about the agency side of things, the client side of things sharing trends and insights. Seema, please, it’s a pleasure to have you here. Hello, thank you. It’s so good to be here. I’m super excited to talk about our topic that we have on hand, and really excited offered to share your expertise with this amazing field and community that we have. And you know, what I my kind of general hope is that some of the information and thoughts that are shared now are helpful as they would have been for me when I got started. Yeah, so see what what I think what I love is for those people who haven’t yet been introduced to you, because you should briefly talk about sort of like what your focus is right now, and where you’re at, or things. So right now, I’m a general manager at conversion advocate, basically, a managed care program for startups that are trying to grow really quickly and aggressively. And so we set up their experimentation programs, we generally will run some somewhere between, you know, 12, to 15 tests per quarter with them. And on top of that, we run, you know, around eight to 10 different research methods, and we try to collect all of those insights, activate them and create this sort of flywheel inside of company. And then we try to expand that by sharing with stakeholders and creating a lot of, you know, only buy in by excitement. And, you know, kind of bring everyone up to speed with the fun and the value that comes with tomorrow. Before that, I worked two years in an agency delivering you know, what seemed like the around the time, but what I would right now call what more more likely it tactical CRO. And basically, like, we would only do some parts of the full width of CRO. So for example, some client projects would be like, sending up a landing page, or another client project could be like a Web Site Audit, based, like an expert analysis, and nothing less, nothing more. And so what that led me to kind of realize is that two years after working in that agency, I realized, I have nothing to show for it as a as a as an expert, like, I’m not able to showcase my work, because other projects were so short, short term that there was nothing really done, we’re a bit of a built up as part of the project. And then other aspects were, results were often difficult to track. Because if clients don’t get along with you, then you don’t get the time to report on those results and review what you keep. And then another aspect is that most of them never implemented the recommendation. So then you kind of did have a report that gets shelved on the table, and that it’s not a feeling of satisfaction, you know, what is your work done, have never seen light of day.

So that’s kind of really led me into this, this, this thought process of what can I do and what can be done to kind of step out this challenging situation. And I was just thinking, you know, my clients on the other side of the, what do we achieve together, they must not feel satisfied, either, because there’s like an aspect of the paid for some work, but then the kind of, they’re missing the final step that make it so that this work actually has value. Yeah,

Khalil Guliwala 4:00

you know, there’s so much to unpack there. I think part of what, what’s amazing is the fact that you’ve got this CRO experience, you work with different agencies, you’re working with different kinds of clients, I think maybe something that would be of interest to people listening, if you can talk a bit more about that client relationship. Because CRO itself is sort of a new field, we’re talking about a different way. You talk about how that’s an internal process where you’re kind of working with stakeholders, almost kind of, like you said, kind of distinguish between tactical and strategic CRO. So can you kind of walk us through the process of you taking a client where they’re kind of interested in CRO to a point where they’re working with you on a campaign or working on a project?

Simon Girardin 4:37

Yeah, I love this question. And I’ll try to answer it with like, both angles of my side of the practitioner what I see and when I won’t, and then what I believe on the client side is what’s ideal. And so, back to my backstory, you know, kind of the initial client projects I had in my first two years and experimentation. Well, technical CRO as I read their colleagues is I realized that would work with, you know, either middle managers or like just kind of people who were pretty much at the same level as I was in the company. And the challenge that came with that is these guys, they had other stakeholders who actually were the decision makers in the company. So even if you’re working on a small project, and it’s isolated for just one page on the site, you know, if you don’t have the actual decision maker for that specific page, then that was a situation I was in all the time, what would happen, you know, I would come in with my recommendations. And as a practitioner, you build a story, or you try to have this cohesive retinues. And what I realized is, as I ran these, my clients that they were bought in, they were excited, but then they were not the decision makers. So they would go to their IRR, and then redo the pitch. But the issue is, they wouldn’t deliver in the same as I did, and they don’t have all that background. And what that led to cause is first really, really extended lags in periods of time that you’re not getting approvals, and things are just kind of floating, and you’re not sure what this thing is. And then you can’t push too hard, because then you don’t know what I mean, you know, level, the stakeholders are involved in the decision on the client side. But as a practitioner, I was removed from that process. And it was a real challenge. On the other side, for my clients, they must feel frustrated, you know, because we’re on the cloud, we’re talking about where we want to achieve, but then they’re not able to move anything forward, they have to go to their higher ups who are busy, don’t necessarily want to spend that time, kind of getting a very quick brief for something that deserves, you know, a bigger kind of explanation. And that would lead I would expect, you know, to some friction internally, because not everyone has been informed of their involvement that was required, but then it requires more time of them. So that really counts as a kind of general reaction to all of this really, really slow progress in the projects, people would lose interest, they would kind of start realizing that well, you know, I think theory. And the reality is the challenge was, we just weren’t other right people sitting at a table together for the conversation.

Khalil Guliwala 7:07

And so I can imagine as well, like you mentioned how, you know, it’s not always the very start, not all the right people or that conversation. But I can also imagine there’s a point where for example, if you said to people who are sort of the managers who are interested in CRO they may understand it already. But it could be maybe more senior executives may not truly understand what CRO is the laughter to hear you kind of walk through maybe situations where you had to take someone who was really skeptical about CRO at that executive level, and try to kind of get them on board like a quick what’s your process like on that?

Simon Girardin 7:41

Right progression. So if today, you take what I do in my day to day words, every time that we kick off a project with CRO we try to invite all of the stakeholders and we’re like all of your executives or your directors, anyone who’s just interested in just want to sit on the call, like your fly on the wall. And they don’t necessarily need to be involved, but they can just listen and watch. And usually within you know, two or three hours, just a couple of hours, they get so much understanding and sense of how we do things. There’s a lot of, you know, explaining the process and kind of showing every single bits and parts while all the tie together and everything is connected. And by doing that, with them, it just really shows the level of sophistication that the thought process, it shows you know that there’s an aspect that is strategy. But there’s another aspect of that like structuring elements and creating just stance, the word through documentation, and through following steps that make it easy for everyone. And so we try to invite them and we tell them, you know, sometimes you don’t need to be involved in a project. And if you’re skeptical, just come in on a couple of calls and listen to us. You’re even welcome to ask questions, Challenger. This is a very open conversation that we have with experimentation. In CRO there’s another it’s very extra attribute in nature, like we try to innovate, we try to validate ideas or challenge assumptions. But there’s definitely an aspect of everyone is open minded and willing to kind of explore entirely new ideas. So by having them just for a couple of hours, it usually gives them a really good understanding of like, what is being done, what is input? What are all the inputs, and what are all the outputs. And it’s not just like test results, then when we’re done with it, that there’s so much more that happened. And so that really helped, you know, show them that it’s a lot more than tactical show them that if you only think of CRO as a marketing thing, then most of the time you miss a bit of one thing. And so what we’ll try to do with these stakeholders to kind of wrap this loop is from everyone on the team at different times. So for example, you have customer success, representatives on the call, then you prompt them for some specific questions. And I just had an example last week with a client, I prompted, you know, the CMO and the chief of CES and we found out that both of them have the same insight but from an entirely different perspective. And we just uncovered something that could be you know when you positioning angles that we never thought of because we never connected those dots together. So why don’t we do that then the skepticism part have to really kind of move away because they realize that okay, this thing new is set up with a clear process. They communicate proactively and efficiently. But then they also know how to kind of unlearn knowledge and insight that we already own in that we just did it.

Khalil Guliwala 10:16

First First thing, what you’re saying is that you know, that they’re the CRO, isn’t just a marketing tool isn’t just for the men, some say it’s for it’s for all departments. Could you talk a little bit about that? You know, like, for example, I can say that, in terms of compensation, how do you get an organization to kind of think beyond CRO is just marketing, but really, as maybe a layer across the organization?

Simon Girardin 10:38

That’s a tough question, because I think, I think the core answer to that is ads come from the team from the company. And so based on all the interest in CRO Spark, you have to start from there. So if only one thing really kind of, is bought in into the process, sometimes it’s just better than you started with them. And these guys, they have, you know, all the momentum already. So they can build a proof of concept for the rest of the team and company. But if you have interest from multiple stakeholders, even if it’s just varying levels, it’s enough to say, hey, let’s get everyone on board. And most of the time, you know, you’ll have quite a few different stakeholders aren’t marketing, another website. Now, our product managers, and these guys are super important. They own their product, they know how it works. When we, you know, as a strategist, when I come up with a test plan, one of the key things that I that I need to do when I present it to my clients, and here’s like the slide and all the details that I want to test. One of the key things is, are there any roadblocks that we foresee? And are there any kind of technical challenge or considerations, I mean, you have, if I don’t have a product, my product manager on the call, but this person is responsible for that page, then we might miss out on another value, because that person could be able to tell us, hey, make sure you watch out for this or that or there’s a loop here that you could use, or we have this other tool that you can access the data, that whatever that other thing. But then because we do that early on, I did this pen approval stage, then the the brief that extends the implementation team is already complete and includes those considerations. If you don’t have that, then that means your entire team works on the test. And when you’re ready to push it live, and you run into QA and final approval stages, that’s when you realize that maybe you have some mistakes or some potential issues that arise. But that’s just one example for a stakeholder that you you want them to be a part of the project. So if it’s a productive cow, they’re not involved, they could do cows. Maybe they don’t attend every time. The reality is, the more involved they are, first, the more they’re able to preempt all of those issues. But secondly, they also build up their own excitement. And they start realizing, Hey, there’s this another thing that I want to tell you share that insight that really kind of piqued my curiosity, can we try and activate into what’s going to lead to so these stakeholders, they all have their their parts. And customer service is important, for example, because sometimes we’re going to remove a feature, you know, or hide it. But sometimes they’ll they’re going to tell us every time something happened, add like a bug or an issue on our site, customers are frustrated with we know that the test and approval page, then you’re able to build up some internal processes, and inform the team that we might be receiving a lot more things from customers, because half of our audience is getting stuck with a variant that’s missing that feature deadline. So are these considerations that are yet to happen in the process, the more efficiency we develop, and the faster we test. And the less frustration happens between the both team and it just builds up excitement for everyone?

Khalil Guliwala 13:42

Yeah, it sounds fast. And because I think what you’re pointing to is the fact that not only is an element of maybe almost like evangelizing CRO, but a huge element of organizational culture to make sure that that sort of absorb and it’s almost becomes a part of the organization’s DNA itself. Like I think one things you mentioned previously was the fact that sometimes even with the CRO test experiments, there’s also a question of the time factor. That is you need to have some amount of time to report on it. So can you talk a little bit more along those lines, for example, when you’re working with clients, you know, there’s this other time element, you’ve mentioned, staffing element, and awareness? Are they are the other factors within an organization that could impact have experiments are one within it?

Simon Girardin 14:25

Well, that’s a lot to unpack and kind of just let me wrap up, you’re you’re coming here by seeing our promise. And what we strive to achieve is provide team enablement and training to our clients. So basically, if you work with us for 90 days, which is usually our starting period, three months is kind of ideal for us to have the time to set up the process and build up the momentum. But it’s also within those three months. If you work with us. Then you’re all set up. You have all the tools, you have all the knowledge and we’ve explained every single aspect of what we do. So you’re able to take everything into it you So, most of the time, clients don’t have the time and resources to do that. But that’s kind of our commitment. And what it does is it just really elevates the program towards the level where we talk about our clients, to now we talk together. And it’s more of a conversation and exchange. And you know, we are strategically leading, but it’s not any more just a matter of we tell them what to do. It’s also a matter of like they understand they’re able to share their input, and there’s a real kind of collaboration that’s going on. So, back to your question, it’s really, really hard to unpack, because there’s so much and each company and website is so different. But what I’ll say is when we do to make sure that once we kick up the program, and it starts, we’re able to launch tests really quickly, and we just want to ramp up their city and unlock all the roadblocks and issues to be identified really early on, or before a project. Before the project. This part is important. So what we’ll do is we’ll we’ll run some stakeholder interviews, we’ll ask them some technical questions about the website, build the team, you know, questions like that, we try to understand what are the elements that we can work on and modify and edit? And what are elements that we cannot touch? Because that’s super important in us knowing? To what degree do we have flexibility in testing? Then we also prompt them in our stakeholder interviews on a bunch of analytics question. Always your are your tools setup? What are the goals that you are tracking? Are you confident in them? Most of the times, you know, things are different monitoring and reporting platform. So if you have Google, Google Optimize, then you have Google Analytics, and you have amplitude, for example, those tools don’t all report the same data. And they have attribution that different. So we also try to understand what is your source of truth internally, because we’re going to use that as well, it’s important that we align them using the same metrics, the same data, because if we report on a goal that clients feel is deprecated, or, you know, not accurate anymore, then it’s we’re not reporting on something relevant to them. So we create all this alignment before we start the project. If we identify any sort of roadblocks, or issues, or things that would slow down testing, then we try to solve it immediately. Another aspect, I mean, even if you never can fully preempt all of the issues, you’re definitely going to meet some of them. And most line projects, you know, there are some early bumps in the road, but are kind of approach is testing as fast as possible, usually, within the first two weeks, the first step that is simple, low level of effort, you know, sometimes it’s a copy, change or headline, we try to make it strategic. But the important here is that it’s a very light dev work that allows us you know, to get a feel and understand what a website we’re working on. Our developers are not touching any sort of important features. We’re not launching something entirely new, but allows us to gain kind of competency before we dive into these more complex tasks. But then sometimes, you know, bumps happen, but they’re hurry or they happen, the more excitement and build up is still happening in that heart and everyone. So then we’re able to quickly circumvent that. And if your team is effective at fixing those things, rather than that, you just build these added layers of trust, where you’re trying to

Khalil Guliwala 18:10

say, I think what I love about the word, the way you kind of breaking it down is there’s an element of strategy, which almost like at the very start, you’re kind of leading as an agency. But over time, you’re kind of educating your clients to come on board. But it’s also this whole element of execution, where you’re trying to find something where the organization can actually execute something that’s going to make sense within your dashboard. And this means living in a silo. But really something in which the organization ends up owning and controlling and being a part of one thing that you mentioned, the model, I would love for you to dig a little bit more is the difference between sort of the status or the tactical CRO, I think it’s very landing page focused, versus let’s call it the most strategic CRO. Could you give them a thumbs up? Also maybe talk about how you came across that that division? freeze up?

Simon Girardin 18:57

Yeah. So back to what I was saying, when we when we started this discussion is, after two years of working in this agency, I realized I don’t have anything to show for I don’t have any sort of case study. And I would think back to the work I did. And I’m like, Okay, this project, you know, that project, I realized, I don’t feel confident showcasing any of that work. For all of the reasons that we talked about before. The realization was, there’s a couple of things that the kind of as a practitioner, I need to be able to elevate my career. And I’m going to talk about the client side in a minute. So for me as a practitioner is like I need to be able to do some work and then have results to report on and kind of review my performance. Because there’s no guarantee that my work, create better experiences and whatever wasn’t baseline before. That was a huge issue that I rarely had the opportunity of reviewing a couple of months in while my work impacted the overall performance of the site. Then another aspect was the projects were short term. And so you kind of there’s another innocence Same thing, because if you have multiple short term projects, then what that does is you can instantly start again from scratch, rebuild competencies, understanding the industry understand the client team and how we should best communicate. And everyone has different preferences. All of that just created. It actually not created, but it kind of dialed down any sort of excitement coming from me, as it’s just like you, you feel like your other thread, starting all these new projects one at a time. But then there’s also an aspect of these short term projects are most often caused by reaction. So it’s not like we want to be strategic and have something different, new and better. But it’s more like designers will come in and say, our, our paid advertising is not performing well, we need something to fix it. And they will use the ROI of that solution. And now the issue is that, because they feel on a time crunch, because the project is on a short term, there’s a lot of pressure. But if you have another pressure and little type to deliver, then what you end up doing is you’re just feel like a firefighter, and you’re just like doing stuff, building stuff. And you don’t feel like you’re kind of planning and preparing and kind of building a strategy. So all of that, for me, as a practitioner, we’re all things that made me raise flags and things I need to change. And I want to step it into something that’s more strategic and kind of thoughtful, clarified, I think there’s a lot of issues with doing this tactical CR when there’s a couple of different definitions. So first, there’s what I mentioned here, Wiswell, like, we would either build an ending page or do a site audit. The issue with that is those are components of the full CRO, but they’re just elements of it. So if you just run them, then you really are far from getting full, full value from CRO, other kind of parts, or other definitions of technical CRO is some agencies and consultants run tests. But there’s no light, there’s nothing that connected, there’s no conducive cylinder, you know, and they just kind of ship that and build that. But there’s no strategy. And if you kind of zoom out over 10 tests, or 20 tests, you can’t understand really like, what’s our intent, and where are we going. And that’s a real issue. So for all that is tactical, the challenge is, it’s a part of CRO, but at the full entirety of CRO and so I define it, it’s a it’s a comprehensive process. There’s an aspect of conducting research and matching, what we’re searching for two specific questions that we have in kind of insights that we’re lacking or assumptions that we have that we want to verify. There’s an aspect of testing that’s iterative, it’s important because if you’re on a death thing it’s using, if you step down and lose interest, then you’ve missed that point, deathless awesome potential to create a win if you are able to iterate on it and find different implementation. And you know, sometimes you have the right research point, you have the correct hypothesis, and you still fail your test, when you can give up, then you’ve missed the value of your hypothesis in your research. So we should just continue. And then all of this is tied in together with communication, you know, documentation, and creating and an aspect of everything that we do in the program is accessible to anyone, and anyone in a business can just come into our folders, and find out what we’ve been doing in building. That’s really all I was separating the two things is tactical CRO, these are components of the whole process, when you should kind of realize that you’re not doing the strategic thing is if there’s no process that links things together. Or if there’s just like tactics or initiatives, and just isolated, then it’s really, you’re missing the biggest value from try connecting the dots and kind of having this flywheel that builds up over time.

Khalil Guliwala 24:02

Where Love is a zero response, it kind of goes dovetails into my next question, which was, you know, the fact that if you’re a client and you’re looking for agencies, how do you distinguish between the ones who, let’s say, exclusively focus on tactical CRO versus, versus versus strategic? CRO? I know you’ve answered this, but are you comfortable taking that answer kind of flipping the other way to say if you’re an agent’s if you’re a client? How, what kind of questions should you be asking an agency to understand how competent they aren’t CRO? Yeah, so

Simon Girardin 24:33

one of the key things is, you want to move fast and you want to you want to be agile and you want to build up velocity when it progress. So the first thing is, you you want to understand how is a test built, explained to me two different things is one what is the kind of strategic work that goes behind creating a task? And you know, for us there is something like three or four steps that goes before we even build up a desk. And then that’s important, like creating our research deliverables, curating the insights, and then understanding how we can tie different insights that exist, you know, like you are most always analytics data that some somewhere explain that either we have low performance or a lot of upside potential compared to other pages, or there’s something most of that time with analytics, then you tie it to some other research, you know, qualitative feedback, a bit of UX research, then you’ve done, you’re building a story, people are just having this and that issue, and it causes this and that in performance, then the next step is we prioritize that we have many, many hypotheses and data points, we can step out of that, then there’s an aspect of privatization. And, you know, there, of course, exists charts that you can kind of document your idea. But that’s not the only component of privatization. For example, if we’re running to a and we have to be that being even it or as a better rating on the chart, so you’re thinking I’m going to run as be afterwards. But with FA N, there’s a good reason for you to iterate on. If you don’t get a result that’s terrifying enough to stop working on the hypothesis. The reason you build the experiment before, if you iterate on it, most likely, you’re going to reuse some components. So you gain efficiency. So now even if there’s be a better rating, does it make sense that you do a two now because maybe it’s going to take you over half as much time. But then when you think through in the long term, that means you could also build a three for the same amount of effort that B would require? That’s that’s one part of it, then that’s just like, how do we build a test? And other aspects of like, what do we do with test results, and what happens to them, one of my favorite phrases is, when I have a test when, what I want to do is take the insights from that win and turn it into 10 More hypotheses. So that’s not only like we’ve won, and we’ve generated revenue, and that’s good and finance, you know, we do what we call a victory lap, and we celebrate that win with our client. And we’ve done to really raise the awareness around what value we create. And we try to be really conservative, but talk to the revenue numbers and how they impact ROI for the project. But then we quickly move on to the actual kind of strategic workflow of, we’ve learned something and we’ve validated something with positive results. What do we do next? I mean, that’s exciting. What’s the next step? And there’s probably other tests, and sometimes, you know, we can apply those insights to more casts on the page, we can also apply the apply all those insights to other pages and start getting in different places, and leveraging the wind and kind of creating this exponential value from spreading it and expanding toward everything everywhere else that we can. Well, those are good questions. Because always have always a test plan created that then you see if there’s strategy behind it. Then test results. What happens with a win what happens with a loss? All of those things really help kind of build the understanding of this is a flywheel and a program that constantly builds over what already existed and it’s never ending. And then I would say, third aspect is, how are things structured and documented? And how do the workflow happen? One of the big issue for our clients is they don’t get support in development. They don’t ask support in design, or sometimes they have their teams, but they’re backlogged already. If you start implementing CRO through these themes, the challenge is, you re extend your timelines, because these things work on two week sprints. So your task going into design is going to require two weeks, then going into dev will require two more weeks. That’s really, really extensive, extends the total timeline. So is your agency able to provide creative work? Are they able to provide a copy? Are they able to provide the development? Most of the time we need approvals, or we have questions, but it’s really different asking something than telling you a let’s let your team build it internally and kind of manage those resources. And then there’s the whole aspect of who’s the program manager? How will they communicate with the client team? And how can we make sure that we create alignment that we involve all the required people, and sometimes there’s someone we just have one thing that we need from them? Who’s going to manage that there’s going to be leading the discussion? So let me summarize this answer in three, three key components is one, what goes behind the test plan creation? Where’s the strategy? Second is what happens when a test is done? What do we do with the results? And what are the next step? How do we kind of tie that into the process? And you can just see with these two steps out, step two could fit directly into step one. And finally, is our our How is everything connected in terms of communication? And how do we discuss all of the aspects of the program to create distinct enablement, create this excitement and buy in and just build up this overall competency on your site for your project as a client, so that your team becomes enabled to participate and chime in and add extra value, because the more you have varied individual that can contribute to a program, then the more value you create, because their unique perspective and new ideas, a new kind of possibility.

Khalil Guliwala 30:16

Yeah, see what thank you so much for the insight cuz I know a lot of clients out there would want to understand how to, on one hand, it’s like you said, walking their journey of, you know, almost, you know, from hiring a CRO agency that kind of questions to ask how to work with them. That’s absolutely brilliant, so much insight here. I think, you know, I think what what maybe listeners would love to hear is that is that if they want to follow you, if they want to learn from you, what, what, what’s the best way they can keep up to date with the ideas and what you’re doing?

Simon Girardin 30:44

Yeah, sure thing, there’s only one place to follow me and it’s on LinkedIn, I post there daily at around 9:30am is basically sharing ideas are shared case studies are also shared, challenging conversations that I have, and kind of what are the insights. And my intent is to things you know, kind of shake things up a little bit and kind of create difficult conversations in the field so that we’re able to ask ourselves, you know, the tough questions, but then feel confident in our own personal answer. The second thing is I want to give actionable insights. And so I will be very direct in giving case studies and explaining how they experiment with Bill, or I want to share exactly like how we have the conversations about solving a business issue to that thing. And CRO or I can also even give you no clear directions on how to build that research or how to do some small components of CRO by yourself. Because as I said, technical CRO is is really not the full value. But if you have to start somewhere, starting by doing some of these technical things can be a great entry point.

Right now, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure having you today. Absolutely. That was so great Gallo. Thank you very much. Thank you

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Getting start-ups to adopt a culture of experimentation with Simon Girardin

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